The ATF considers three common firearm characteristics to classify a pistol. What is astonishing is ATF has the prerogative, under ATF order 3310.4b, to admonish and have a person remove the … “To paraphrase from the NRA Firearms Sourcebook, most shoulder-fired firearms have a 13.5- to 14.5-inch length of pull. it only speaks in generalities. If that’s racist then the whole 4473 and background check is racist and since it’s a system it’s gotta be systemically racist. Sights and Scopes. They’ve presented nominally objective factors. Don’t be such a racist! Length of Pull. The Department of Justice (DOJ) is planning to “subsequently implement a separate process for current possessors of stabilizer-equipped firearms to choose to register such firearms in compliance with the NFA.”. The FICP is really fighting for our Second Amendment rights as hard as they can. That criteria includes: caliber, weight, length, design of brace, if it can be fired one handed, and what type of … Buttstock vs. Brace. ” not telling you what the speed limit is ”. Hey DEBBIE W. (Obviously a transgender weirdo)…. “classifying weapons WITH STABILIZING BRACES” If the overall length of the firearm is under 26 inches, it places the firearm in a category to be regulated by the NFA. The election is a perfect example. Instructions: All submissions received must include the agency name and docket number (ATF 2020R-10). Truly a pair of SHTF guns. An ISP will hand over customer information without hesitation in order to save their own skin / licensing. Defense Chief Jackie Speir, calls to screen right leaning service members social media Accounts, SIG SAUER Completes Final Delivery of Next Generation Squad Weapon System to U.S. Army. So here is the rundown. Appx. If the brace uses a spacer or other buffer attachment found on a rifle, then the ATF will consider the firearm a rifle or shotgun. Type and caliber, weight and length, length of pull, attachment method, stabilizing brace design features, aim point, secondary grip, sights and scopes, peripheral accessories. This is just the tip of the iceberg folks. 2001). And he has someone like you blabbing all about it on the internet. By starting with the assumption that length of pull — the distance from the trigger to the rear of the stock — is part of their test and matters, it appears the ATF considers all braces to be stocks until proven otherwise. A few weeks ago, we discussed the ATF contradicting previous determinations of SB Tactical braces, and most recently the Buy Build Shoot kits from Polymer 80. What is astonishing is ATF has the prerogative, under ATF order 3310.4b, to admonish and have a person remove the offending feature that creates the NFA weapon. ATF and DOJ to Rule in on Pistol Braces…What to Expect? If a brace is of a length that makes it impractical to attach to the shooter’s wrist or forearm, then that may demonstrate that it is not designed as brace but rather for shoulder fire. The letter states that BATFE is “currently considering restricting one arm brace model owned by more than 700,000 Americans, despite it being no different in function from the more than ten arm brace designs already approved by … Providing gun enthusiasts with a website that has meaningful, yet simple, gun and gear reviews since 2009. Unfortunately it’s becoming clear that this ATF action might be a real comment period, but I can assure you, they will not be taking your comments seriously…. I said the same thing about him blabbing but my comment has been in mod jail since this morning. Debbie W. you voted for the first President to ever attempt a coup. And that’s just what I told them in my comment: The ATF has not presented any “objective factors” to determine whether a pistol-braced firearm is a pistol or short-barreled rifle. The basic gist of their conversation was that modifying a pistol brace with the intent to specifically shoulder the firearm classified it as an SBR. According to Gaetz’s letter, BATFE has begun enforcement of a standard that declares brace-equipped pistols with a length-of-pull of more than 13.5 inches are SBRs. Aim Point. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws.”. Follow the instructions for, Mail: Office of Regulatory Affairs, Enforcement Programs and Services, Bureau, Federal eRulemaking Portal: ATF recommends that you submit your comments to ATF via the Federal eRulemaking portal at www.regulations.gov and follow the instructions. SO lets talk caliber, Magnum research makes the BFR in the following .30/30 WIN., .444 Marlin, .450 Marlin, .45LC/.410, .45/70 Gov’t., .460 S&W, .500 S&W. The end. From what I can recall, KAK spoke with the ATF to get a better understanding of their stance on pistol braces. There are many gun rights groups that are on top of this situation, to include the Firearms Industry Consulting Group (FICP). For THAT reason, we’re screwed. An objective definition of pistol brace would be: A device designed to aid a user in holding a large pistol with one hand, which extends no further than the user’s forearm when gripping the firearm normally, and which conforms to the user’s forearm. All Rights Reserved. The GCA does not define the term “redesign” and therefore ATF applies the common meaning. Any other feature of the brace that improves the weapon’s effectiveness from the shoulder-firing position without providing a corresponding benefit to the effectiveness of the stability and support provided by the brace’s use on the arm. They should pick on someone their own size like Global Corp. “Please note that the deadline for comments is January 4, 2021, meaning that they have only allowed all of 18 days for comments, not the usual 30 (or more).”. She was against Social Security and Medicare when she was healthy and generating much income, but when she became old and infirm she accepted thousands of dollars in Social Security and Medicare benefits. So unless you want to stand WITH real Americans, go stand with the rest of the boot licker crowd….. These are the well known but there are uncountable examples of the ATF terrorizing and harming common law abiding citizens simply because they can. This arm brace is designed to fold and latch on the TMP platform and clears the ejection port. You forget they’ll shoot your Pomeranian first because ‘deadly attack dog’…, “I’ll be telling them to fcuk off, again.”. To submit your comments please follow the rules below: You may submit comments, identified by docket number ATF 2020R10, by any of the following methods—. I recently started to review guns, gun accessories, and other gun related items on YouTube. They want their way…END OF DISCUSSION. That statement would appear to leave us precisely where we are now: at the mercy of a proven arbitrary and capricious federal agency bound to infringe upon the Second Amendment. Again, the groundwork has been put into place and it appears that if this passes the only options are: register your Brace/Stabilizer, lengthen the barrel, destroy the brace, or destroy the pistol. Or the Gun Walking scandals of George W Bush and Barrack Obama administrations, resulting in LEO and citizen deaths on both sides of the border. “So, you’re saying Debbie W voted for Bathhouse Barry?”, That’s not Ms. Inacker, it’s a fuckwit troll impersonating her…, Seems like your kind of agency, enuf.‍♂️. By including “length of pull” in the “factors,” the ATF starts with the assumption that a braced firearm is a short-barreled rifle until and unless it is proven otherwise. Here is a quote from an article on a case review published by Personal Defense World: "The ATF appears to use 13.5 inches as the maximum length a brace may extend behind the trigger face without being considered a shoulder stock. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Peripheral Accessories. it only speaks in generalities. In other words, useless to those attempting to make something legal to sell and own. Scuttlebutt has it that a brace with a LOP greater than 13.5 inches becomes magically irksome in the eyes of the ATF. Don’t blame the players blame the game man. Stabilizing Brace Design Features. As long as you don’t red Loctite the set screw in place, ATF considers it to be “temporarily placed” and “perfectly okay to shoulder.” (He didn’t beat around the bush on this topic.) Within that conversation, the agent mentioned a length of pull no longer than 13.5”. This determination, consistent with law, clarified that attachment of a pistol-affixed arm brace did not constitute the making of a Short Barreled Rifle (SBR) subject to registration requirements under the National Firearms Act (NFA), 26 U.S.C. Glad you feel that way….. NOW GTFO!!!!!!! They know that…they don’t care! Though a strong President could fix it with decisive executive authority, none will. They are making a list and checking it twice……. Is the current benchmark of 13.5 inches going to remain? You’d more likely be paranoid they’d come look you up and take away your customized Moisin Nagant and SKS. An objective definition of pistol brace would be something like . Do us all a favor and spare us of hearing the same washed up issues from times long past…. “It’s to the point where the ATF has become irrelevant.”, Free Clue – Add a ‘giggle switch’ to a firearm and show up a public gun range for a few mag dumps and see what happens to your ass…. Use of these items indicates that the weapon is designed and intended to be fired from the shoulder because they extend a stabilizing brace beyond a point that is useful for something other than shoulder support. What is needed are legal and political attacks upon the ATF leadership and individual transgressing agents and supervisors. Attachment Method. The basic gist of their conversation was that modifying a pistol brace with the intent to specifically shoulder the firearm classified it as an SBR. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. U.S. judge allows extradition of two men accused of aiding Ghosn escape, Hot Pistol Tips from the US Army Marksmanship Unit, 5 Steps for Building a Personal Shooting Range, 16 page rough draft copy of proposed rulemaking. I’ve about had it with hearing your constant BS about nazi’s and the KKK….. It’s like YOU’RE STUCK IN THE 80’s or something….. Again, individuals and companies are getting arbitrary and sometimes contradictory advice from various ATF personnel. Our Second Amendment rights are under heavy attack and on the brink of extinction if a certain administration has their way. First, the ATF has never issued an official public opinion letter stating that AR pistols with such accessories — cheek rests, pistol braces, etc. Docket ID: ATF-2020-0001 Objective Factors for Classifying Weapons with “Stabilizing Braces”. I’ll be telling them to fcuk off, again. They said they had a letter, but they never posted it as far as I know. Kinda like saying there are limits to how fast you can drive on the highway but not telling you what the speed limit is. Length of pull – Firearms with a long length of pull will likely be considered rifles and shotguns since LOP does not need to be very long for a pistol brace to be attached to a wrist or forearm. Actually, that is not accurate; a roller coaster is fun and ATF regulations are not. You bozo are not one to be talking and you should tried for treason. Beginning Friday the public can leave comments at Objective Factors for Classifying Weapons with … You can find me on Facebook for upcoming reviews, online deals, and videos. If the ATF is so blind they cannot see themselves going after freedom like criminals do then the time has come for the ATF to close their doors. The ATF *should* be irrelevant, but government gonna government. Should be easy to figure out his address and phone number. If TTAG ever gets a NSA letter or something similar for a list of user IPs, the ATF may come asking about you about your friend. The method of attachment of the stabilizing brace, to include modified stock attachments, extended receiver extensions, and the use of spacers. The subsequent deduction was that a length of pull of 13.5 inches must define a rifle. See 26 U.S.C. The ATF is allowing comments until Jan 4th of 2021 regarding the re-classification of Pistol Braces. The agency (or rather, the agent) that obtained the sample of the Honey Badger asserted it had a LOP of 13.5 inches with the brace and therefore, was clearly designed to be fired from the shoulder according to that criteria, despite SB Tactical and Q making it clear the HB is a pistol. Also, you can follow me on Instagram. Pliny the Elder, considered the author of the first encyclopedia, thought there was a tribe in Africa with no heads – with their eyes and mouths in their chests. so does this mean that if we just take the brace off and replace it with some foam padding on the length of the buffer tube and then cap the end with a tennis or racquet ball or some similar piece of shock absorbing material we can then have whatever caliber and weight we want and a forward grip and a 1-6x scope and a light and a laser and a sling and 45 degree sights, You’re not a “realist” You came up with a lazy excuse of justifying your cowardice with “da times”. Some sources have said that the ATF expects your brace-equipped pistol to have a length of pull under 13.5 inches. If the nation did away with the un Constitutional 1934 NFA and 1968 GCA then the need for a also un Constitutionally authorized agency and they wouldn’t be infringing on We The Peoples rights. We are being honest actors, thinking rules, precedent, or laws will matter to dishonest actors. To any honest person there was 100,000’s of thousands of fraudulent votes in each battleground state. The ATF’s record is chock full of killing by way of incompetence, arrogance and enormous mistakes with zero accountability. It’s to the point where the ATF has become irrelevant. Well it appears that there is a 16 page rough draft copy of proposed rulemaking specifying “Objective Factors for Classifying Stabilizing Braces” according to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF). The document is not an administrative determination that any particular weapon equipped with a stabilizing arm brace is a “firearm” under the NFA. Because an arm brace need only reach the forearm, the distance between the trigger and the back of the brace is generally expected to be shorter than the distance between the trigger and the back of a stock on a weapon designed and intended to be fired from the shoulder. If you want your (our) constitutional rights restored like our founding fathers wrote, then all the red states need to secede and tell the socialists and crooks to gfo. ATF getting citizens, LEO’s and their own officers shot and killed began with the Ken Ballew Raid in 1971. Although Trump was better than the shill would have been he still sucks. Submit comments in any of three ways (but do not submit the same comment multiple times or by more than one method). And since one needs to register their info with ATF to make comments (I already have) I’m sure you didn’t bother. My comment probably will have no effect, but who knows? Subjective evaluation is also subject to change over time, meaning that what was compliant yesterday may be noncompliant tomorrow. Also, you can follow Gun Owners of America for other Second Amendment Lawsuits as well. . The “length of pull” refers to the distance from the trigger to the point at which a stock meets the shoulder. On an AR-15, the “length of pull” for the Blade is approximately 13.13″, so no issues there. The proposal seeks to evaluate AR pistol with braces on a case by case bases. Beginning Friday the public can leave comments at Objective Factors for Classifying Weapons with … @Theresa Inacker So, you’re saying Debbie W voted for Bathhouse Barry? Well, when there aren’t enough criminals, one makes them. Any President could end this abuse. Its dumbass shittalk like that why POTG are going to lose one day. But ATF does not specify any “length of pull” that is presumptively acceptable. The ATF has come up with a long winded and seeming difficult to decipher set of so-called standards that will help them determine how they will arbitrarily enforce this new policy. By starting with the assumption that length of pull — the distance from the trigger to the rear of the stock — is part of their test and matters, it appears the ATF considers all braces to be stocks until proven otherwise. December 23, 2020 staff. Yeah, I gave out soooo much info there. You should be in prison for Sedition and Anti-American Incompetence! And you contributed to and voted for biden/harris. When you stand right up against the legal line and say, “DURRRR LOOK HOW CLEVER I AM!!! With a brace, it can be as short as you want, but you can't exceed 13.5" because the ATF determined you're approaching stock territory, no matter what you want to call the attachment at the end of the buffer tube. The LOPL Length of Pull Limiter plug is designed to install on a carbine receiver extension to restrict the length of pull or pre-set the maximum extension to a desired length. The rear of the brace is taken at its most extended position (if adjustable). Not seeing your point. To the extent that the ATF Director subsequently issues such a determination, the ATF Director, at the direction of the Attorney General, plans retroactively to exempt such firearms from the collection of NFA taxes, provided those firearms were made or acquired in good faith prior to the publication of this notice. Your email address will not be published. FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT: Office of Regulatory Affairs, Enforcement Programs and Services, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, U.S. Department of Justice, 99 New York Ave. NE, Mail Stop 6N-518, Washington DC 20226; telephone: (202) 648-7070 (this is not a toll-free number). With the stock (assuming you have a 16" barrel), the length of pull can be anything. When she ran out of money, she went on Social Security and Medicare. Required fields are marked *. Your overall length is more than 26 inches. A large caliber firearm that is impractical to fire with one hand because of recoil or other factors, even with an arm brace, is likely to be considered a rifle or shotgun. We need to stay focused on the fight and let President Donald Trump know that we do not stand for this seizure of our rights and that he needs to abolish the ATF. Written comments must appear in minimum 12-point font size (.17 inches), include the commenter’s first and last name and full mailing address, be signed, and may be of any length. By all means, ATF… please, do continue. An unaccountable Federal law enforcement agency with SWAT ability, armored vehicles and a bloody history of messy fuck-ups is not irrelevant. So… since they are adding regulations… how many rules are they getting rid of as per Pres. The pistol braces acceptance will be based on a set of criteria by the ATF. “There’s no way to rule innocent men. First of all the ATF has a long and bloody history, easily the worst of any USA government agency on home soil. You’re a prime example of why we can’t have nice things. “Length of pull”—for lack of a better word regarding pistol braces—begins to enter a “gray area” above 13.5″. Although, this is just a rough draft, it appears that this may be published within the next few weeks in the Federal Register. Ayn Rand was a raving loon to be sure, but she wasn’t wrong about communism, or the power of selective enforcement. Put another way, if the firearm has an overall length of less than 26 inches, it places it into a category of arms that could be considered to be regulated by … I’m still bitchin about that, gunm insurance, gotta have it sht. Appropriate aim point when utilizing the attachment as a stabilizing brace. The GCA does not define the term “redesign” and therefore ATF applies the common meaning. The ATF’s proposed rule for determining whether a firearm is a stabilizer-braced pistol or a short-barreled rifle is open for comments. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. In an ATF letter obtained by firearms legal expert, attorney Adam Kraut, the ATF is no longer allowing overall gun measurements to include “stabilizing braces” used to brace the gun against the user’s forearm, meaning that many popular guns like the AR pistol could be under their standard length and subject to the National Firearms Act (NFA) regulations if they have a … “The ATF Objectifies Pistol Stabilizing Braces”, Whatever turns them on…I’d rather “objectify” women…. Besides a fun party. I don’t seem to recall her ever stating that. The length of pull is under the ATF suggested maximum length of 13.5 in. 2) Under vagueness doctrine, a statute is also void for vagueness if a legislature’s delegation of authority to judges and/or administrators is so extensive that it would lead to arbitrary prosecutions. This arm brace is designed to fold and latch on the TMP platform and clears the ejection port. I live in CT too. But it is really worse than that. Second, the barrel cannot be longer than 16 inches. “No single factor or combination of factors is necessarily dispositive, and FATD examines each weapon holistically on a case-by-case basis.”, That is no more than fancy language for Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart’s infamous, “I know it when I see it.”. She was certainly prophetic about the times we are in and entering. 324 (9th Cir. Supreme Court decisions in our favor will help, but so long as the ATF exists it shall continue to harm and kill Americans because of incompetence, arrogance and outright criminality. Further, ATF has consistently held that the overall length of 26 inches is the breaking point for concealability. 2020R–10. People on this site prove that “gun people” are incapable of even conversing, let alone doing anything productive together. So what is the ATF looking at when it comes to “stabilizing braces” and what are they deeming as NFA items? This proposal will affect the gun industry, as well as citizens who own the weapons in question. Fear not. BREAKING NEWS: ATF Withdraws Pistol Brace Guidance After Gun Owners Pounded Them With Nearly 70K Comments In Five Days. What length of pull is permitted? What they have not presented is the metrics by which the factors are to be evaluated. I would like to hear them try to justify Gun Control when Gun Control is an agenda rooted in racism and genocide. Comments like this would have no positive affect on any proposed regulation- why even bother to post them here? Subscribe for FREE now to ensure you never missa single vital update... ©COPYRIGHT 2021, THETRUTHABOUTGUNS.COM ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. The little bastard won’t climb over the fence so he does what he can to aggravate the dog. Please note that the deadline for comments is January 4, 2021, meaning that they have only allowed all of 18 days for comments, not the usual 30 (or more). Incorporation of sights or scopes that possess eye relief incompatible with one-handed firing may indicate that the weapon is not a “pistol” because they are designed to be used from a shoulder-fire position and are incompatible for the single-handed shooting that arm braces are designed and intended. As it happens, the length of pull is a key component of the ATF’s claim regarding the Honey Badger. The ATF’s Firearms Technology Industry Services Branch or FTISB holds that the standard length of pull on long guns is 13.5 to 14.5 inches, which – as it happens – is … It has been shown that the Biden Administration is wanting to go after Pistol Braces/Stabilizers and 80% Lowers. Watch the video and shoutout your favorite executive agency that has violated this rule in the comments below!#FPC #2A #RKBA pic.twitter.com/6GaBYTElpc, — Firearms Policy Coalition (@gunpolicy) December 19, 2020. Thomas Jefferson owned slaves. ATF’s claim is that it’s simply detailing in a clear, objective fashion the metrics by which it does, will, and has judged pistol braces. ... such as the apparent 13.5-inch “length of pull” limit. See, e.g. !”, you lose the right to complain. §§ 5801-5872, and made these important safety tools more readily available to those who need them. they have already decided their course of action…. Indeed, that appears to be because ATF has no fixed standard. The rifles may be off the books, but now there is a written record that states you know exactly who owns them. Another process may include the following options: registering the firearm in compliance with the NFA (described above), permanently removing the stabilizing brace from the firearm and disposing of it, replacing the barrel of the firearm (16” or greater for a rifle, or 18” or greater for a shotgun), surrendering the firearm to ATF, or destroying the firearm. Think they are a threat to innocent lives and the ATF/DOJ do with booze, blombs and smokes effect! Nearly 70K comments in Five days listed in ADDRESSES section of this situation, include. Government agency on home soil benchmark of 13.5 in t blame the players blame the game.... Ever attempt a coup you lose the right or the left * should * be irrelevant but! As NFA items braces as a requirement to own a firearm, whew, thatd be.. Will matter to dishonest actors talking and you are unfamiliar with them, please look their! 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